I Suspected Something About Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. Watching Their Podcast Only Confirmed It.

A curious paradox of one of the most obsessively chronicled relationships in human history is how little the vast majority of us had, until Wednesday evening, actually seen of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce interacting. Don't get me wrong: We've all seen a lot of Swift and Kelce in the two years they've been dating, more than some of us ever asked for. But their relationship has been consumed primarily via short-form clips and paparazzi photos and lyrical allusions, and though they had spoken about each other a little in interviews (Swift has given only one of those since they started dating, and that was because she was named Time's Person of the Year ), they'd never done one together. Nor had they walked a major red carpet as a couple, something some celebrity couples seem to be shy about these days. That all changed this week, with Swift's appearance on Kelce's podcast, New Heights .

The ostensible purpose of the episode was for Swift to announce her upcoming album, The Life of a Showgirl . But the two-hour interview also provided an as-yet-unparalleled opportunity to observe Swift and Kelce in each other's presence. Sure, you can learn a lot from watching two people kiss after one of them finishes performing a concert in Argentina , or after the other one wins the Super Bowl , or while both exuberantly take in a tennis match , but you can learn a lot more from actually seeing them in conversation with each other, talking about their relationship. And this installment of New Heights , a show Kelce co-hosts with his brother, Jason, offers an absolute windfall from a TnT relationship analysis perspective.

But before we even get into the episode itself, there's so much to say about Swift's decision to show up in the first place. She could have announced her album an infinite number of ways. Any traditional media outlet would have jumped at the chance to host her, or she would have generated more than enough attention posting the news herself on social media, as she has before. Though New Heights is popular in its own right, with nearly 3 million subscribers on YouTube alone, it's not as popular as Swift, and she undoubtedly did her boyfriend a favor by choosing it as a vessel for her news, propelling it straight to the top of the Apple Podcasts charts, seemingly for the first time. Not that she doesn't benefit too: Joining Kelce on the show provides a safe space for Swift to get in on the trend of podcasts taking on a bigger role in the publicity cycle, as everyone from presidential candidates to major stars like Brad Pitt and Timothée Chalamet have incorporated them into their press strategies over the past year or so. This is not an entirely positive development, as stars, and politicians, tend to like these shows precisely because they have more control over them than they do more traditional outlets—and that's true even when they're not dating one of the hosts.

Still, the main thing I can't get over is what her appearance says about the seriousness of their relationship. Swift clearly trusts Kelce. There's being Instagram official, and then there's appearing together on an hourslong podcast that will live on the internet in perpetuity—I don't think they would have done this if they weren't committed. Not just because the idea of breaking up one day and this video still being online is painful, but because this is business for both of them, but especially her, and Taylor Swift doesn't mess around when it comes to business. She's always looking out for No. 1, herself, so it says a lot that she's also looking out for No. 87 . Sure, she co-wrote songs with Joe Alwyn, but that was her thing, and now she's sharing her spoilers.

All of this is to say I was pretty sure before I even hit Play that these two are in it for the long haul, and observing them actually speaking to each other only further convinced me. They're cute together, OK? There are so many little looks they give each other throughout the episode that say it all, and they seem to genuinely make each other laugh. They've even developed a good running shtick, with Swift as the brainiac and Kelce as the himbo who can only marvel when she uses vocabulary words too big for him to understand. (Kelce is being self-deprecating, even as it's clear that it's not entirely a shtick: Kelce's definition of esoteric , for example, is, shall we say, directionally correct ? Which is to say, more or less incorrect.)

Over the course of the episode, they give a more complete accounting of how they met than has ever previously been put on the record, a tale that will no doubt be of interest to fans. (It turns out that the three-time Super Bowl champ was so “butthurt” about Swift not meeting him at the “Eras” tour that he took the friendship bracelet he had made for her, with his phone number on it, and threw it away.) And I continue to be impressed by how complimentary they both are of each other, with Kelce doing a refreshingly good job of showing how men can support their partners' careers without the fear that it will somehow be emasculating. (When Kelce calls her the “greatest songwriter of all time,” Swift is quick to undercut this, adding, “Says her boyfriend.”)