INTERVIEW - «Accept that you can fall, then you have a chance» – two women about the challenge on the rock

Babsi Zangerl, you recently posted on social media that a childhood dream had come true. You were referring to an afternoon of climbing with Lynn Hill at your home in Vorarlberg.

Babsi Zangerl: Lynn was always a climber I looked up to. When I was still a fanatical boulderer, I read all the stories from Yosemite and what Lynn did there. It's great that Lynn is visiting me now.

How important were such role models on your path to becoming one of the best climbers in the world?

I don't have that many role models. I started climbing with my brother and sister. In 2010, I went to Yosemite for the first time. I had no chance to climb anything, not even the smallest crack in the valley, even though I was climbing routes with difficulties of 8c+ back then. But I had no experience with those cracks. There's nothing like that in the Alps. Years later, I climbed the famous "Nose" route on El Capitan, and it was incredibly difficult. I can't imagine how Lynn climbed it 30 years ago.

Last year, you "flashed" a route on El Capitan , something no one had ever accomplished before. That is, you climbed the route without falling, without even knowing it. Lynn Hill, is Babsi Zangerl a climbing legend?

Lynn Hill: Yes, absolutely. That applies to bouldering as well as big walls. She's a real inspiration to me. It's interesting that we're very similar: how we approach projects, for example, and also our attitudes toward climbing. And I also like how she reads the rock.

When you started climbing in the mid-1970s, the sport was still heavily male-dominated. What role models did you have?

I was fourteen when I went climbing for the first time – with my sister and brother, just like Babsi. At the time, I didn't even know that there was a climbing history or a magazine about climbing. There were no climbing photos either. I was probably seventeen when I heard about Beverly Johnson, who climbed El Capitan solo in 1978. But it wasn't about the fact that she was a woman. She was just a climber. Later, I became one of the first female spokespeople for climbing. When I think about it, I may have even contributed to the fact that there are so many people going on at climbing crags everywhere today.

With your successes, you've shown what's possible. The photos from "Nose" still speak for themselves. When did you realize what you had achieved back then?

A single climb can't define who you are, even if the "Nose" is one of the most famous big wall routes in the world. I never considered myself the best climber. I just went rock climbing with my friends. I tried to keep up with the guys. But everywhere I've lived, there have always been women who were good climbers.

You wanted to climb with the boys. But they didn't like it at all when you showed them how. The men were looking for reasons why a woman, of all people, had managed it. Did that bother you at the time?

That was funny. They had to find their own reason why I made it and they didn't, and then it turned out to be because of my little fingers. But on a thousand-meter-high wall, there's more than one reason. Of course, my fingers were an advantage on the Great Roof, but I couldn't reach the footholds there and had to bend my head under the roof.

How were women treated in climbing back then?

Of course there were macho comments. But I felt very comfortable. To give you an example anyway: In 1979 I was with John Long in Telluride on the Ophir Broke route. The lower section was difficult for me because I couldn't reach the holds due to my height. I still found my way. John couldn't handle the crack further up, but he was just the right height for me. I managed to free ascent it. But the guidebook read: "First Free Ascent: John Long / Lynn Hill." Or Galen Rowell: In his book "The Vertical World of Yosemite" in the early 1990s he wrote that women weren't included in the book because they hadn't made any significant first ascents. But what about Beverly Johnson? She made the first ascent of a route on El Capitan with Charlie Porter.

Ms. Zangerl, how are you experiencing this today?

Babsi Zangerl: Man or woman, it's never made a difference. But what I sometimes observe today is that in couples who are just starting out climbing, the men often want to show the women how it's done. And sometimes it turns out that the woman actually moves much better than some men. That makes me smile.

Lynn Hill: Even today, routes are still downgraded simply because a woman climbed them.

Babsi Zangerl: I've had the experience with the hardest sport climbing routes I've climbed: afterward, many people suddenly tried the route. I suspect they thought it was probably an easy 9a or an easy 8c+ if a woman could do it.

Do you think it is easier for women to succeed in climbing today?

Babsi Zangerl: Women generally get more attention because there are still significantly fewer women climbing. But do you have to emphasize that every route was a "First Female Ascent"? Even if it was the first time a woman attempted the route and no other woman had ever climbed it? For special, historic, and difficult routes, that makes sense. But generally and always? It can also be a form of discrimination to always have to emphasize that. It shouldn't matter whether it's a man or a woman.

Lynn Hill: I agree with Babsi. The first woman to climb a route at an extremely difficult grade is interesting. And I also accept that for routes that have been attempted frequently by women or that are special. But otherwise, this information isn't needed. It's not necessary for any route in a small climbing area.

In your case, Ms. Zangerl, it is undisputed that you were the first woman to flash a route on El Capitan, i.e. to complete it on the first attempt without falling.

Lynn Hill: She was not only the first woman, she was the first person ever.

Ms. Zangerl, have you already realized what you achieved in November?

Babsi Zangerl: We didn't really believe it would work. On the wall, I didn't think about what it might mean. Only after we were through did I realize how lucky we were. You have to let it happen. If you really want it, it takes a lot of energy, and then you won't make it.

Lynn Hill: That's exactly the right approach. Try, know you've got what it takes, and then just do it.

Babsi Zangerl: On a wall like this, you absolutely have to be focused on the next move. After the freeblast, the first ten pitches, I was satisfied. From then on, everything else was just a bonus. This allowed me to find the right attitude, the right mindset, and climb in flow.

Are women more intelligent? After all, women have set standards twice.

Lynn Hill: This isn't just a woman's issue. For men and women alike, if it's about the ego, it won't work. Be in the moment, accept that you can fall, and then you have a chance!

Babsi Zangerl: You have to be focused for many days. It's no use recreating difficult sections beforehand and training in the gym. Then the pressure is even greater when you're standing in front of the wall. The brain is the strongest muscle in climbing, that's what matters.

This sentence comes from Wolfgang Güllich, who set new standards in climbing in his time.

Babsi Zangerl: If something's important to you, you give it your all. If something's not so important to you, you have other things on your mind.

Lynn Hill: Moments like that are kind of magical. You accept that you might fall and are 100 percent focused on climbing. Your mind does something before your body does.

How important were the respective partners for your success?

Lynn Hill: Very important. Your rope partners have to want you to succeed. You can feel the energy when someone is there for you. It's about more than just belaying. It's a kind of love. Not in the sense of being in love. But a very strong connection.

Babsi Zangerl: There's a lot of trust involved. I wouldn't trust just anyone. I trust Jacopo, my partner, more than anyone else. I know I can risk a fall without anything happening. Without him and his mental support, I wouldn't have flashed the route. Success in climbing is teamwork. We agreed that I would lead the "Monster Offwidth," while he preferred to lead the boulder problem in the upper part of the wall. Those were the two hardest pitches for us. That way, the second person always had a slight advantage because they could watch the other one do it. Jacopo was very unlucky and fell on the boulder problem, and that was the end of his flash. I still had my chance. Jacopo gave me tips, and then, with a lot of luck, I climbed the pitch without falling.

You, Ms. Hill, started climbing fifty years ago. How do you view it today?

Lynn Hill: There's no question that the sport mentality and competitions have changed climbing dramatically. The climbing walls that are now everywhere have improved accessibility. And, of course, the fact that sport climbing became an Olympic sport in 2021.

Babsi Zangerl: For many people today, climbing is a fitness sport, and the climbing hall is a social place where you meet friends and try out bouldering problems. Today, some people stay indoors. Back then, we were desperate to get out on the rock. About twenty years ago, we kids discovered the Silvretta bouldering area in Galtür with Dietmar Siegel and Bernd Zangerl. Around the same time, the first boulders were created in Magic Wood, which Thomas Steinbrugger and his friends had discovered back then.

The Magic Wood bouldering area is located in the Ferrera Valley in Graubünden.

Babsi Zangerl: At the very beginning, it was difficult to find your way around. There was no bridge, there was moss everywhere. It was a magical place. There's not much left of that anymore. The moss has diminished. Nature is suffering. It would make sense to close the area for a while so nature can recover. If climbing areas become more popular, we might need more regulations; otherwise, there's a risk that nature will change drastically.

Lynn Hill: We have a highly developed infrastructure in this regard in the US. One example: Hueco Tanks. The area was closed for a long time, and certain parts are still off-limits to climbers. Because so many people were there with their bouldering mats, the ground subsided. But Hueco Tanks is a historically significant site. Ancient artifacts and graves were found there. Therefore, paths were created that people must stay on. There's also the organization Leave No Trace. It aims to raise awareness about proper behavior in nature. For example, the organization has poo bags manufactured and distributes them free of charge.

So that no one goes behind the bush and simply uses nature as a toilet.

Lynn Hill: In the US, we're actually much more careful about this. I'm amazed at all the garbage lying around here in the Alps.

Ms. Hill, 30 years ago you said that climbing had become a metaphor for a happy life for you. Do you still see it that way today?

Lynn Hill: Yes. Climbing makes me content, balanced, and happy. That was true then. And it still holds true today.

Ms. Zangerl, can there be more after your success last fall?

There are still many cool routes I want to climb, or countries I'd like to explore. Or to make a first ascent one day. Going on an expedition somewhere and opening an inspiring new line on a beautiful rock face would be a huge dream for me.

An article from the « NZZ am Sonntag »