These videos will be illegal on the internet. Deputy minister reveals
- What can't be shown to children on the internet ? As Michał Gramatyka says, internet service providers will have to block content that is contrary to social norms and demoralizing.
- - How are the deaf and dumb supposed to call for help? That's why I'm working on making it possible to send an SMS to 112 - says the WNP interlocutor, adding that without it Apple will not launch an important service in Poland.
- E-voting? - Today, conducting electronic elections means getting involved in unnecessary dangers - admits the WNP interlocutor and adds that he used to be an enthusiast of such a solution.
- Will it be possible to "troll elections"? - These are irrational fears - assesses Gramatyka. The Sejm is working on collecting signatures for electoral lists through mObywatel.
You have sprinkled ashes on your head regarding internet voting.
- I am an enthusiast of digitalization, but I must admit that today, making electronic elections means getting involved in unnecessary dangers.
You used to be a supporter of this form. What convinced you?
- The war convinced me. On the one hand. On the other hand - voter turnout. When I saw that in traditional elections you can achieve 75 percent, any reason to organize e-voting disappeared. I also see how many threats there are in cyberspace.
Can you see more from the minister's chair?
- Yes, exactly. I have constant insight into CERT Polska reports and I think that with this number of cyberattacks, we would be taking on unnecessary risks with virtually zero profit.
For example?
- For example, that someone will take over our elections or compromise the voting system, or simply create the impression that the elections were not fair and lead to their invalidation. Besides, in my opinion, we will not be able to agree on what such a voting system would look like - the problem of secrecy of voting via the Internet is currently unsolvable.
However, signatures for electoral lists can be collected electronically.
- Because the risk here is incomparably lower. We settle taxes remotely, submit documents to offices, why shouldn't we support our candidates in elections remotely?
We will create a system that will function in parallel with traditional signature collection – when the act comes into force, we will be able to provide support by signing physically on the list, or electronically. The system will be built by the Central Information Technology Center, then it will be transferred to the National Electoral Commission and the National Bureau of Elections. From the moment the source code is transferred, the COI will not be able to change anything in it – such a safeguard against accusations that the government is influencing the elections.
At what stage is work on this project?
- The bill has passed its first reading, and the subcommittee for amending the electoral law is working on it. Last week we had a meeting where we made a big step forward. We have had consultations with the National Electoral Office and have amendments to the original bill written out. We are waiting for the government's position.
Just a month ago you said that the coalition partner was freezing this project .
- It's over and done with. The case has started - that's what's important.
You are talking about the system, meanwhile the chairman of the subcommittee assured on Polish Radio that signatures will be available in mObywatel.
- These are not mutually exclusive. It will be possible to log into the system using various credentials, mObywatel will be one of the possibilities.
Will it be possible to revoke the signature?
- Once you physically sign a candidate's list, you can't revoke it. It'll be the same here.
Are there any planned improvements related to paper signatures? For example, will it be possible to check in some database whether someone else has signed for me?
- I don't think so. Electoral Committees will be able to track how many signatures they have collected on an ongoing basis - for obvious reasons, such a mechanism will be useful. You will also be able to see in mObywatel who you have signed under. According to Polish law, signatures can be submitted under several candidates.
This is one of the problems revealed by Krzysztof Stanowski – a citizen does not know whether someone has signed on his behalf.
- In a digital version, it can be done. But in a traditional way, how would it look like? The National Electoral Office would have to register every signature given by a citizen in person, and that is impossible…
So it will still theoretically be possible to buy a stolen database and forge signatures .
- Such "buying" is a crime. And the problems with collecting handwritten signatures will be partially solved, because when the digital option appears, people will probably be happy to use it.
The only improvement that would apply to analog signatures in this bill is the possibility of submitting them to the National Electoral Commission in several tranches, so that the committees can check on an ongoing basis whether they have already managed to collect a sufficient number.
And how will candidates or electoral lists be included in the system?
- To register an election committee, you need to collect a thousand signatures. I would leave this stage as it is - analog. After registering the committee, the system will have the option of digitally collecting signatures of support.
When will the bill be ready?
- It's hard to say, there are still many steps ahead of us. I'm not racing with anyone, I care about making a good law, not about having it ready right now, right now.
Law and Justice was against electronic collection of signatures. You were accused of trying to introduce electronic voting through the back door.
- MP Łukasz Schreiber spoke at the committee rather about the threat associated with celebrity candidates. He is afraid of internet influencers who will take advantage of the opportunity to promote themselves. Or that it will be much easier to create a candidate whose name is the same as the real one and thus troll the elections. In my opinion, these are quite irrational fears.
Besides, PiS is a team that has introduced a lot of digital solutions. I would be surprised if they were against it now. There are a few smart people there, maybe they will convince the rest.
And shouldn't there just be more signatures?
- It is not easy to legally collect 100,000 signatures.
This was done by Ms. Joanna Senyszyn, who has been absent from politics for a decade.
- But her group has existed since the times of ABBA.
Mr. Maciej Maciak also collected.
- In my opinion, 100 thousand is really enough. We have submitted 400 thousand.
Stanowski said he had donated four million. You like what he is doing around the elections
- I really like his conversations with candidates. After three hours of conversation, you can finally find out who the candidate is. Szymon Hołownia said that the interview with Stanowski was the longest in his career.
Perhaps such conversations should be broadcast on public television, which the coalition has funded with PLN 3 billion.
- I will leave this without comment.
In addition to the act on electronic collection of signatures, you are also running a project that is to limit children's access to inappropriate content on the web. There were a lot of comments on it in the government
- We have collected all the comments and are working on the next version of the text. In accordance with the suggestions, we are trying to define harmful content in it. We have initially determined that it will be:
"Materials presented on the internet, presenting behaviors that are contrary to generally applicable social norms, are of a demoralizing nature, and may negatively affect the mental, physical and social development of minors. Excluding content of a scientific, educational or artistic nature, and content constituting a crime."
Aren't you afraid that patostreamer Robert Pasut will be able to start his video with the words "hello, this is my artistic activity" and then everything will be legal?
- Isn't it too early to torpedo this definition? Let me publish it first.
Torpedoing?
- Seeing artistic value in Pasut's streams is a misunderstanding. Showing drunk teenagers on TV would qualify as art? That's a bit of nitpicking. The guiding idea of our law is to protect children from adult content online. So we need to define such content. Someone has to take responsibility for it. So here I am, I have a proposal and I'm ready to discuss it.
But I'm not defending patostreamers. I'm just asking if officials will get a well-built tool.
- That is why the first part of the definition contains several requirements - such as a demoralizing character. This is still a working draft, it will go through social consultations and opinions in other ministries. If it turns out that it is impossible to define pathological content, then we will leave only pornography in the act.
Would you prefer them to stay too?
- Patostreams are a huge problem that mainly affects children. It is for their good that we need to deal with it.
The Deputy Minister of Culture wrote that the new law is unnecessary because it would be enough to update the provisions of the Radio and Television Act, which already cover broadcasters.
- But if we did that, we would only cover broadcasters operating on the Polish market. It would end up like the gambling law. The law supposedly works, but people still play through blocked domains, only using VPN.
Does the coalition support this idea?
- The bill has been entered into the government's work program. Today it is quite difficult to say what the coalition partners support, because we have a few days until the elections. Let's wait and see what happens after the second round.
If you are a junior partner in a coalition, is it difficult to implement your ideas?
- It depends on what they concern. If you do things that are necessary and important, you can work on a lot. I recently convinced the Ministry of the Interior and Administration to start work on the "text to 112" service.
Meaning?
- You're sitting in a closet and someone is robbing your apartment? How can you call for help? Or how can deaf people call for help? That's why I'm working on making it possible to send a text message to 112.
I was at the Emergency Notification Center in Radom, I checked how it looks there. I am in touch with Minister Leśniakiewicz. We are currently establishing a team that will prepare a road map for this idea. From the perspective of the tasks of the Ministry of Interior and Administration, handling the number 112 is a matter of lesser importance. But for me it is of primary importance.
Why?
- Because it is a life-saving service. Just like AML (advanced mobile location - precise reporting of the location of the person calling for help) which we are currently implementing. We also want Apple phones in Poland to allow satellite calls for help even without access to the network. In most European countries, Apple offers such a service. We had the opportunity to test how much it is needed during the flood, when water flooded BTSs. I went to Cupertino later and talked to the creators of this technology. They said that without "text to 112" it will not work. So we have to launch it. We will all win.
wnp.pl
