Former CDC director tells Senate committee 'true reason' she was fired

Former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Susan Monarez is appearing before the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions on Wednesday for her first public appearance since she was pushed out of her position leading the nation's public health agency.

Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy, the panel's chair and a doctor from Louisiana who was one of the key votes to confirm Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., said he was focused on learning what led to the abrupt firing of Monarez just weeks after her confirmation.

"Part of our responsibility today is to ask ourselves, if someone is fired 29 days after every Republican votes for her, the Senate confirms her, the secretary said in her swearing in that she has 'unimpeachable scientific credentials' and the president called her an incredible mother and dedicated public servant -- like what happened? Did we fail? Was there something we should have done differently?" Cassidy said.

Monarez, in her opening statement, gave a detailed timeline on the chain of events that she said led to her ouster.

"Since my removal, several explanations have been offered: that I told the secretary I would resign, that I was not aligned with administration priorities, or that I was untrustworthy. None of those reflect what actually happened," Monarez said.

Monarez said there was a meeting in which she says Kennedy told her to preemptively accept recommendations from a CDC vaccine advisory panel and to fire career officials overseeing vaccine policy.

"I would not commit to that, and I believe it is the true reason I was fired," Monarez said. She later added, "I was fired for holding the line on scientific integrity."

She also claimed that Kennedy spoke to the White House "several times" prior to the meeting about firing her.

Kennedy, in a hearing before the Senate Finance Committee on Sept. 4, disputed Monarez's version of events, which she first shared that same day in an op-ed published by the Wall Street Journal.

"Did you, in fact, do what Director Monarez has said you did, which is tell her, 'Just go along with vaccine recommendations, even if you didn't think such recommendations aligned with scientific evidence?'" Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., asked Kennedy.

"No, I did not," Kennedy replied.

In a fiery exchange with Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Kennedy claimed Monarez told him she was untrustworthy.

"I told her that she had to resign because I asked her, 'Are you a trustworthy person?' And she said, 'No,'" Kennedy replied. "If you had an employee who told you they weren't trustworthy, would you ask them to resign, Senator?"

Monarez on Wednesday, however, testified Kennedy told her the childhood vaccine schedule would be changing in September and "I needed to be on board with it." Monarez said Kennedy spoke to President Trump "every day" about changing the childhood vaccine schedule.

"He did not have any data or science to point to," Monarez said. "As a matter of fact, we got into an exchange where I had suggested that I would be open to changing childhood vaccine schedules if the evidence or science were supportive, and he responded that there was no science or evidence associated with the childhood vaccine schedule. And he elaborated that CDC had never collected the science or data to make it available related to the safety and efficacy."

"To be clear, he said there was not science or data, but that he still expected you to change the schedule?" Sen. Cassidy asked.

"Correct," Monarez said.

Monarez is being joined at Wednesday's hearing by Deb Houry, former chief medical officer and deputy director for program and science at the CDC, who was one of four top CDC officials who resigned in protest after Monarez was ousted.

The high-profile departures raised alarm over Kennedy's vaccine policy agenda, which the public health officials said they were being asked to endorse without adequate science. Kennedy stood by the recent shakeups at CDC, saying they were "absolutely necessary adjustments to restore the agency to its role as the world's gold standard public health agency with a central mission of protecting Americans from infectious disease."

Sen. Cassidy told Monarez and Houry on Wednesday that "the onus is upon you to prove that the criticisms leveled by the secretary are not true."

Cassidy's decision to pursue oversight of the CDC turmoil signifies a new, firmer era for his relationship with Kennedy -- a shift was on full display during Kennedy's own hearing before the Senate earlier this month.

The senator accused Kennedy of undermining President Donald Trump's legacy on Operation Warp Speed, the government effort that fast-tracked the COVID vaccine, and told him recent FDA changes to COVID vaccines were "denying" people access.

Democratic Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester, who sits on the HELP Committee and has called for Kennedy to step down, said Cassidy's decision to call Monarez to testify showed a continued "weakening" of support for the secretary.

"I think Secretary Kennedy's actions at the Finance Committee left a lot of not just Democrats, but Republicans very unsettled," Blunt Rochester told ABC News in an interview.

"The fact that a Republican is chairing the committee and called for her to come is a positive step, and maybe shows there is some weakening. But the reality is, you know, Secretary Kennedy needs to go -- whether that is he's fired, whether he quits, he is unsafe for America," she said.

During the Senate Finance Committee hearing on Sept. 4, Cassidy was joined by two other Republicans on the committee -- Sens. John Barrasso of Wyoming, the second most powerful GOP senator, and Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who announced earlier this year he was not running for reelection -- in expressing concern over Kennedy's handling of vaccines and the CDC.

Other high-level Republicans have also voiced criticism, including Senate Majority Leader John Thune, who said Kennedy had to "take responsibility" for firing Monarez just four weeks after the Senate confirmed her. Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine said she didn't see any "justification" for the termination.

Republican Sen. John Kennedy, Cassidy's counterpart in Louisiana, called Kennedy's handling of the CDC a "multiple vehicle pileup."

Monarez, who HHS publicly announced was "no longer director" on a Wednesday afternoon in late August, drew widespread attention when she refused to leave her post, asking Trump to weigh in and fire her directly if he agreed with his HHS secretary. She said she was pushed out because she wouldn't agree to rubber-stamp Kennedy's agenda or fire high-ranking scientists.

The move put a spotlight on Kennedy's vaccine policy changes, which have ramped up in recent weeks. Kennedy canceled around $500 million in contracts for mRNA vaccines, changed the recommendations for healthy children and pregnant women to receive COVID-19 vaccinations and, through the FDA, oversaw the narrowing of approval for the updated COVID shots this fall only to people over 65, or younger Americans with underlying conditions.

A CDC committee will soon meet to discuss vaccine recommendations more broadly, including the measles, mumps, rubella, varicella (MMRV) vaccine, and Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV).

Kennedy has replaced all of the members of the committee with handpicked people, some of whom have expressed criticism of vaccines. Asked by ABC News if he plans to limit access to any of those vaccines, Kennedy said the committee would decide after a "real gold standard scientific review."

Monarez on Wednesday expressed concerns with the composition of the advisory committee.

"Based on what I observed during my tenure, there is real risk that recommendations could be made restricting access to vaccines for children and others in need without rigorous scientific review. With no permanent CDC director in place, those recommendations could be adopted," Monarez said.