Carney ‘let Trump be the star’: Analyzing the Oval Office meeting, from pleasantries to insults
Prime Minister Mark Carney met U.S. President Donald Trump at the White House on Tuesday for the first time since his election. Both made a point to make nice, praising each other as “transformational” leaders and pledging a friendship that will survive despite Trump’s unchanged desire to make Canada an American state.
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“As you know, from real estate, there are some places that are not for sale. We’re sitting in one right now,” Carney said. Canada “is not for sale, won’t be for sale, ever, but the opportunity is in the partnership.”
“Never say never,” Trump said. Then both men agreeably moved on. Trump did most of the talking, while Carney emphasized what they agree on, ignored the rest, especially the automotive industry, sat alert and patient as Trump rambled about diverse matters, and declined to rise to his insults of other politicians, notably his minister of transport and internal trade, Chrystia Freeland.
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To sketch this fireside chat, National Post asked three political experts to parse their words and demeanour with an eye to describing this important new relationship. Rob Goodman is associate professor of politics at Toronto Metropolitan University, author of Words on Fire: Eloquence and Its Conditions, about the current state of political rhetoric, and former speech writer for U.S. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Senator Chris Dodd. Robert Danisch is professor in communication arts at the University of Waterloo, studies political rhetoric in democratic societies. Jeni Armstrong teaches political communication at Carleton University and was lead speech writer to former prime minister Justin Trudeau from 2015 to 2018. They spoke with National Post reporter Joseph Brean.
Just before the scheduled start time, Trump posted on social media that America subsidizes Canada by $200-billion a year and other provocations, such as” “we don’t need ANYTHING they have, other than their friendship, which hopefully we will maintain. They, on the other hand, need EVERYTHING from us!”
“I don’t think it’s surprising. This is a president who comes out of reality TV,” Goodman said. “Establishing conflict and dramatic stakes is how he uses his techniques.”
As Prime Minister Mark Carney makes his way to the White House, Trump posts his often repeated (and debunked) claim that the U.S. is “subsidizing” Canada #cdnpoli pic.twitter.com/JbTeYqksDZ
— Stephanie Taylor (@StephTaylornews) May 6, 2025
Carney is late. This threatens to look bad, sloppy, rude. Who’s late to the White House?
CBC News reports the delay is actually on the White House side, and Carney is on site, waiting at the gate in his vehicle.
Trump appears at the door to greet Carney. They shake hands, pat each other’s shoulder. There was no yanking of the arm, as Trump has often done, famously to Justin Trudeau. Both give a fist up to the cameras, Trump first, then Carney in response. Dansich saw this as Carney showing a genuine affinity to Trump, what social psychologists call mirroring body language.
The mood is so genial in the Oval Office that Carney winks at someone off camera before things begin. He has a habit of doing this at important moments, including his inauguration.
Trump congratulates Carney on “probably one of the greatest comebacks in the history of politics, maybe even greater than mine.”
“These comments about positive stuff, it’s in the context of aggression and attacks on sovereignty, but the affect is much more outwardly conciliatory,” Goodman said. He thinks Trump uses a “backslapping clubbiness” and a false “bonhomie” that is familiar from the New York real estate world. He was even a little funny, Armstrong said, and made Carney laugh with his claim to be “probably the greatest thing that ever happened to him.”
“I have a lot of respect for this man. I watched him come up through the ranks when he wasn’t given much of a chance,” Trump said.
Danisch said there are two ways to interpret that. The generous one is that Trump is saying he knows the Goldman Sachs guys and Carney was never going to rise among them. The ungenerous is that he doesn’t really know Carney at all and he chose a cliché.
President Trump meets with Canadian Prime Minister @MarkJCarney in the Oval Office.
"Regardless of anything, we are going to be friends with Canada... I have a lot of respect for the Canadians." - @POTUS 🇺🇸 pic.twitter.com/IzqFbAtzlg
Carney congratulates Trump on being a “transformational” president and says he has been elected to similarly transform Canada.
“Carney was quite shrewd to point to that so that right wing media can interpret it as respectful and positive and left wing can interpret it as horribly negative. That seemed practised and intentional,” Danisch said. Armstrong, likewise, said “transformational” was “a great word to use because, like the word ‘consequential,’ it’s kind of value neutral. It’s a word you can use to describe someone or something without necessarily weighing in on whether you think it’s good or bad.”
Carney emphasizes military spending, border security and fentanyl.
“He knows that this is a Trump preoccupation so he might as well take the initiative on it,” Goodman said. He compared it to dealing with an elderly relative. “You kind of have to humour their perception of the world to avoid blowing things up, but you have to be assertive and stand up for yourself. Getting that balance right is hard.”
“I did find it a bit strange that the president referred to the prime minister by his first name when talking about the conflict in Ukraine (‘Mark wants it ended’) but hey, I’ll take it if it means this is decent working relationship,” Armstrong said.
“I’m not surprised that this topic came up, but I guess I’m relieved to see that it entered the chat via a question from a reporter as opposed to Trump saying it unprompted,” Armstrong said. In any case, Trump’s annexation pitch has softened. He says he still wants it, but it “takes two to tango,” and then expanded on why Canadians should agree to this “wonderful marriage.”
In reply, Carney “was as forceful and direct as possible,” Goodman said. “Having one’s national sovereignty challenged and demeaned in the way Trump has, I think those are really emotional issues, and I think it’s both natural and expected that, on the spot, that’s the sort of thing that could provoke anger, or emotional pushback. I don’t think that’s Mark Carney’s style.” Trump is sensitive to pushback, he said, as much as he presents as a tough guy, so Carney’s confident dismissal was well judged not to derail the meeting, “as satisfying as that might be,” Goodman said.
Armstrong said she liked this response, with its “appeal to Trump’s expertise as a real estate guy,” the comparison to the White House and Buckingham Palace as other placed that are not for sale, the “masterful” reference to Canadians as “owners” of the country, “and finally, the pivot away from the 51st state nonsense to what is practically achievable, with a hint of a Taylor Swift reference (‘won’t be for sale ever’).”
Trump was conciliatory, but added “never say never.”
“I thought that was a good line. It allowed Trump to save some face. It allowed Trump to reiterate the point that this is not going to be a violent invasion, it is a deal, in his mind,” Danisch said. “I think they both got out of that exchange what they needed to.”
Trump said he has a lot of respect for Canada, and the first thing that came to his mind, after a mention of his parents’ relatives who lived there, was Wayne Gretzky. Danisch said this was an effort to demonstrate his knowledge of Canada, but it came across like saying he has friends in Canada. “These are clichés that Americans trot out to demonstrate some familiarity with Canada,” Danisch said. “I think it’s to try to ingratiate one’s self, I don’t think people generally realize it doesn’t do it.”
It did not help that Trump seemed to say Alex Ovechkin was Canadian too, because he is not only not Canadian, but Russian.
In saying that USCMA is still a good deal, Trump takes a shot at former deputy prime minister Freeland, who negotiated it, calling her a “terrible person,” but drawing no reaction. It was a little like when someone tells a rude joke in a polite context. “It’s not just the rudeness but it’s the way that is degrades you as someone who is part of that interaction,” Goodman said. People who violate social norms want others to join them. “It validates them. That’s the social psychology of Trump’s instincts for interpersonal dominance. He wants your hands to be dirty as well.”
Later, when Trump asked if Carney had heard of Gavin “Newscum” Newsom, Carney nodded once with a wry smile and sucked his cheek as if to indicate he’s not saying anything. This was “studied neutrality,” Danisch said.
Carney seemed to ignore Trump’s long-winded discourse on the automotive industry. “I think Trump made clear that it’s on the mind of his administration, and making progress there is an interest. If that’s the substantive thing that comes put of this, that’s pretty well done by Carney,” Danisch said. But it went on so long, and then Trump started talking about his belief that the U.S. “subsidizes” Canada by $200 billion a year “or whatever the number might be.”
Carney folded his hands, and was clearly getting ready to speak, when Trump abruptly ended the whole event. “Trump always needs to have the last word and he took it and he repeated his position,” Danisch said. “Carney seems uninterested in the media spectacle of the whole thing, and that really benefited him, to sit there like the adult in the room and let Trump be the star.”
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