Pablo Matera, with an open heart: "The Pumas have a different mentality today: the team wants to win and believes that the way to win is to continue growing."

There's a different Pablo Matera than the one who seems gigantic, colliding and colliding body to body, regardless of the hulk in front of him, and who this Saturday will celebrate his 110th match with Los Pumas . He's the one who makes Milanese or some rare steak in Japan to navigate culinary challenges that still sound too exotic to his partner even though they've been in the country for more than three years. They live there with their two sons— Dartagnan and Akira —for half the year, the duration of his season with the Honda Heat . The rest of the year they're in Argentina. Or, rather, they're setting out from there to wherever the Argentine National Team's itinerary takes them.

He likes rock classics from the 90s and early 2000s. His Spotify algorithms could play FM Aspen, and the music he listens to paints him as mature. On July 18, he turns 32, and for the first time since joining Los Pumas, he felt as aged as a hit you can hum from the first chord. “I was the second oldest in the group,” he says, surprised by the Dublin tour that ended with the historic victory over the British & Irish Lions , and emphasizes this in an exclusive interview with Clarín .

He's a tremendous third row who emerged spontaneously: when the Argentine Rugby Union ( UAR ) recruited him for its high-performance system, the organization was just beginning its process toward professionalization. He was trained in the amateur era of Alumni and only played two matches in the Tortuguitas team's First Division. He forged himself along the way: Leicester in England, Jaguares , Stade de France , until he became a key player and champion with Crusaders in the Super Rugby Pacific. An outstanding player.

At 25, he was elected captain of Los Pumas, and soon after, the blow came. Someone on the Twitter cesspool—now X, but where the same fluids flow—found what Matera and his teammates Guido Petti and Santiago Socino had expressed at 18: expressions of profound class hatred and xenophobia . They were removed from the squad, although the UAR later lifted the punishment: there were no traces of such conduct in the present.

The stigma remained with Matera, who was never reappointed captain. He made a mistake, paid the price, and if the oval ball wasn't tarnished, the captaincy was. The rugby world long ago turned the page on the controversy his Wikipedia profile mentions. For the rest of the world, it depends. In an unexpected test at the Nueva Chicago pitch the day El Torito beat Colón 1-0, the people in Mataderos recognized him and selfies with a taste of redemption emerged. What was he doing there? The surprise visit from a New Zealand friend, eager for football, in the middle of the Club World Cup coincided with a Second Division match. Before the official start of Los Pumas' 2025 schedule, the active player with the most matches for the national team reviewed his career and the current state of the national team.

-What is it like to live in Japan?

It's very different from Argentina. Everyone who goes to Japan is drawn to the culture, and many things are opposite to ours. There are some very beautiful things about it. A lot of discipline, a lot of respect, a lot of respect for elders. A lot of order, in everything. My children go to school there, and when he came back the first week, he peeled a tangerine at home and piled up all the peels. I wasn't like that. It seems that the first years of school there are totally orderly, not so much academic theory. And then we come here, and we're more open: it doesn't take us 10 minutes to give you a hug, tell a joke, relax... So I miss it a lot, but I like that my children can experience both.

-Why did you choose that country?

Well, I had been with the Jaguares, but the 2019 World Cup was where I learned more. That experience left a lasting impression on me, and I was left with the idea of ​​living there at some point in my life. My wife had taken a solo trip to Japan and came back fascinated. So the conversation was that we had to do it at some point, and when I was in New Zealand, the opportunity arose and we didn't hesitate, because playing in Japan is very complex; there are spots for international players, and it's not like you can go at any time. I wanted a club that was as family-oriented as possible and not live in a big city. Honda rugby is growing a lot and is far from Tokyo... It's like living here in Navarro or Lobos. It's not a village, but it's a smaller city. It was a family decision, and we loved it. We've been here for three years now; this will be the fourth. We were a little scared, but we always knew that while my children were young, the adaptation would be better than taking them out of school at six or seven years old with a group of friends. Now that we're in Argentina, we also realize that we won't be doing this for much longer.

-Time to go back?

-Little by little, yes. It's a great experience, but it's not the place we'll be seeing for much longer.

-Do you see yourself in Buenos Aires or somewhere else?

-I see myself in Argentina. I don't know if it's Buenos Aires. We really like the South. My wife has her house in Bariloche, and we've been going there for many years... But, well, time will tell.

-Don't you think you made a sporting compromise by choosing Japan?

-No, in fact, to this day I think about whether I'd like to return to France, where rugby is much more intense. In Japan, with that respect, fans celebrate a try from the opponent. Then I think about France, but it's eleven months of competition. I've already played in that tournament, and I feel like I wasn't in the best physical condition for the international season with Los Pumas. So I feel that by giving up the intensity with which rugby is experienced in Japan, I find it allows me to travel with Los Pumas and be in better physical condition. So today, when what matters most to me is being with Los Pumas, Japan is the best place.

-Thinking about that first cap and the 110th birthday you'll turn on Saturday, what were Los Pumas like and what are they like?

Yesterday, I was talking with Kenny Lynn (the New Zealand assistant coach of Los Pumas) about what we're doing this year, what we did last year, and what he sees of us from the outside. I told him that I played with Felipe (Contepomi, the national team coach) and that from that day until today, I've had five different head coaches , and that, beyond each one's distinct personalities, rugby has changed a lot. I remember that before, there was much less detail and information in the game plan and in the strategy. It was very different. Today, the way we play rugby has changed completely. You have a specific role on the field, and within that specific role, which I don't want to call limiting, is like a cog that makes everything work and can't be missing. Before, everyone was making decisions. Are we going to play with the forwards or the three-quarters? The chant was: 'We're going to play with the forwards now,' there wasn't a defined structure. Today, we forwards have five different structures. The backs, another six or seven... There's much more detail in the game plan. I think that's what brought us closer and allows us to compete against much more structured teams, such as teams from the United Kingdom, New Zealand, South Africa, and other European teams—teams that have a lot of detail and are also physically powerful. Today, we have a level of detail that competes with any game plan they propose, and our added value is our passion for the game. We're still a team with a lot of potential, but I've seen enormous growth over the last 12 years I've been here. Especially in preparation.

-Does that level of sustained detail explain the great 2024 that left the "almost" winning or the "almost" being competitive, for the sake of it?

- Yes, the truth is that last year was very good. I think the only thing we could do was pick up where we left off: it's not like it's a new year and we're starting over. If what we achieved last year was very good, we analyze how we were in November, in all areas. We aim to pick up where we left off. How do we start the year from here? I think we did well. That was evident against the Lions, beyond the result, beyond the fact that we won, we analyzed the different areas of the game in that game and comparing them to our last game in November, they are very similar in terms of the number of scrums, the way we played. I think that was a huge growth to be able to get together several months later and pick up where we left off last year. So obviously it's a spectacular morale boost to have won, to have had a good first game, and now it's a huge challenge against England and to say again: what happened last week was the foundation and to keep looking to be stronger.

-Where does the team's consistency take you?

-First, to improve as a team. There was a time when we fought until the last minute, but we didn't win, and we were content with giving our all and leaving everything on the field. That's something that's never negotiable, but in the end, we left empty-handed. Today, the team has a different mentality; it wants to win and believes that the way to win is to keep growing. You see it in those who have been here for a year, two, or three: in the short term, they have a mentality of improving every day. The focus of this team is constant growth.

-Do you believe it? Do you think they can be champions?

- I think results give you confidence, and we're all confident. We've had periods where there was one crazy person with confidence, then five, 10, 15... I think it's hard to stay in the players' heads these days, but I feel like when the team is on the field, I see that a lot of them believe in what we're doing.

-The children arrived, there's a Matera dad... Did that role bring you closer to the memories of your father?

-I think so. It gave me another perspective on what my parents did for me. You realize when you're a parent that the only thing that matters is your children. I understand my father more, who's no longer with us, but especially my mother. It makes me feel more grateful for what they did for me. So I think being a parent is not only a stage I really enjoy, but it also brings me closer to my parents.

-How do you remember your father as you grow up?

"I carry my old man with me every day. I never stopped thinking about him. He's a part of me; he taught me everything. Today, the only thing I regret is that I don't know his grandchildren, but yes, I carry him with me."

-Is it true that he didn't want you to play rugby for fear of hurting others?

I don't know if it was like that, but a little bit, yes. A little bit. He had an accident playing rugby when he was a kid. It was a different kind of rugby, not the kind we play now. He was very crazy, and when he became a father, he became very fearful and very afraid that a similar situation would happen to me, that he would hurt someone. It was a very brutal sport. Rugby today has so many rules that if you touch someone's head, you're out for eight weeks. But, well, one of the things that motivated me was to prove him wrong. I understand it today, but I'm scared of everything with my children. Today, things that I would have done, I'm scared that my children will do them... That overprotectiveness that all parents have, right?

- Were you able to think with that mind about those unfortunate tweets you wrote as a teenager, and how did you process your life after that?

-I think that today, looking to the future... I hope that when my son reaches adolescence, I'll still be here and I'll be advising him. I'll be on top of things so he doesn't have to go through that. I think if my old man had been here, he would have slapped me in the face: 'What's this stupid thing you're doing?' And I would have straightened out in two seconds. Today, God willing, I have the opportunity to support my children and, if any of them are straying from their path, bring them back.

-That took away your captaincy...

-After some time passed, after the apologies, you weren't reappointed captain. Even though you're now vice-captain, isn't there a conviction there?

-I think that over time, something being here has taught me is that you can only think about what you control. Within what I control, I try to do the best I can. There are things I don't control. The decision that the institution or a coach or whoever makes isn't 100 percent up to me. So, I shouldn't waste energy or frustration on that. Obviously, at the time, it was something that hurt me a lot, but now it's something I understand. I understand that they must have their reasons, that at the time it was the best thing for the team, the institution, or whoever it was, and I respect that.

-Doesn't it move the needle for you to be captain again?

- No, not at all. I also learned that being a captain is a title. And when we started the conversation, we talked about what I could convey to the younger players, to my peers, to my teammates. Today, it won't be influenced by the title I have on the team. Everyone has the opportunity to influence or reach someone, every day. You don't need a title.

-You feel like a leader anyway, then...

-On the pitch, yes. Of course, I'm one of the players who's been here the longest, and I have that responsibility.

-Are the All Blacks beasts? In the "billards" sense, I mean...

I don't know if I'd call them 'bugs.' They're extremely competitive and always aim to win. They have a ton of experience in this sport. Much more than us. They've been playing professional rugby for many years, longer than us. They're the best team, at least, of the last two decades. Then, they have their tricks, for sure. But who doesn't? I think they use that experience to their advantage.

The All Blacks understand the game more than we do, of course. For starters, rugby is a sport refereed in English; our language is Spanish. They understand the referee more than we do; that's the most basic thing, if you will. They've been professionals for a long time. Five years ago, I don't know if I'm counting correctly, we weren't professionals. But we're getting stronger.

-I was asking you if they were "bugs," because I was once told that the tribute they paid to Maradona was more to show you that they hadn't prepared any than for the tribute itself...

-I don't know. It's a point of view worth analyzing. You'd have to ask them sometime. I don't know if they have some strategy off the court to gain some kind of advantage. I want to believe not, I choose to believe not, but I don't think we'll ever know.

-What happened? Why didn't they think of a tribute to Maradona?

-I think this happened on a Thursday, and we were playing on a Saturday. When we found out, it was huge news, and it had a huge impact on us. But the first thing that came to mind wasn't, 'What are we going to do about it?' I think the players, too, were thinking about what to do in the game. We needed the managers, from outside, to organize things, or at least give us a suggestion. What was done was the best we could have done. Looking back now, and looking back on it with hindsight, I would have loved to have done more.

-How long do you see yourself playing at a professional level?

I used to say 'year by year,' now I think it's week by week. I don't want to exaggerate. I really enjoy what I do and I love it. Today I choose to be here. I choose to sacrifice things to be here. Next year we'll see, and so on...

-You don't put the shit after the World Cup?

-I would love to play in the World Cup.

-Don't you feel like you have it secured?

-There's a lot left. Two years in this sport, which is brutal, anything can happen. And I'm also very grateful to be healthy, but in two years, I hope I'll be healthy again and have the physical condition to play.

-How do you think you'll be remembered after retirement?

I don't know how I'll be remembered on the outside. Honestly, I think there will be all kinds of different opinions. Yes, I'd like my peers, my teammates, to remember me as someone they could always trust, and that what we experienced on the field goes beyond training: we spent a lot of time together here, we experienced a lot of things. Everything is intensely experienced.

-Can you imagine yourself in rugby or doing anything else?

-I don't know. I can't imagine myself being anything other than a player in rugby.